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WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-13 10:56:13

GreenTea 
Level 60
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GreenTea: where the f*** did your bot come from??? Out of nowhere a new player shows us what dynamic bots (I can only assume) are capable of doing.


=)

No miracle. Just 1 month before posting first version of bot I started to implement some submodules of future bot: like map analyzing, optimal expanding, analyzing of attack & battle etc.

Sorry, no more updates on SupremeDalek. I'm not in school anymore ;(

Norman, what do you mean? You have no access to source code from home?
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-13 12:50:34


ps 
Level 61
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That would be very cool, do you think anyone can do it? I assumed that was way beyond your capacity as most humans cant do that, and the bots in the current competition aren't even close. It sounds like you should use the real time ladder templates.


You just have to break it down to smaller problems. Out of the top of my head, thing one could try:
1) calculate how safe each superregion is, based on how many borders they have with others
2) calculate a rate for expansibility (how many turns it will take to take next superregion once you have that one)
3) determine importance of each region as chokepoints in expansion strategies
4) simulate different scenarios to estimate best expansion strategy and how to counter it
5) estimate opponent income and expansion strategy
6) simulate min-max what the opponent would likely do next turn and the best way to counter it

with these points alone i think you could already code a decently competitive bot against a regular warlight player. taking it to match elite players is another story, but yes i believe it can be accomplished to a competitive degree.

regardless, my idea would be to keep things open source as much as possible, so that new coders picking up the problem on the next challenge already have the grunt work code available and can focus on improving it in terms of strategy.
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-13 12:54:38


ps 
Level 61
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The reason most bots fail playing South America is because they don't defend North Africa. With you having 7 income and the opponent having 7 income from Australia there is no way for you to throw the opponent out of Africa if he just plays passively.


yeah, i'm still trying to fix that on mine, and i think that's the only thing stopping me from getting higher on the ranking imho.
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-13 15:01:36

GreenTea 
Level 60
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dead piggy said:

Balanced maps are incredibly dull. Most lottery games are played on balanced maps. All the earth maps are imbalanced, pretty much anything that's not symmetrical is a little. That is a good thing, it creates dynamic strategic games.


Can't agree with you. Balanced != symmetric. Balanced means that it is no easy way to define winning strategy on map. For example if we took medium earth. Could you tell what 3 picks (suppose there are no combos in distribution) are best? Best means that if you got them all then will be no problem to win no matter what other picks choose opponent, if play skill of both players are equal. Probably there no such imbalanced 3 picks. And every combination of picks has its own strategy of play.
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-13 15:18:48


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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"Balanced means that it is no easy way to define winning strategy on map." I cant see why you think that?

Balanced means "in good proportions" ie that no area is significantly better than another. In your example, I cant tell you what 3 picks are the best, but theyre likely to be in the '3 income' bonuses, and greenland, aus, and the '4 income 5 territory' bonuses. I can tell you which ones suck: canada, east russia, north africa, west US, East US. Yes obviously sometimes theyre pickable.

The map is imbalanced, north america is weak, africa is strong when you have its choke points, weak when you dont, asia gives very strong expansion options, the south is very safe etc. These imbalances make the game interesting. That is what a template needs, and the current template does not have it. It is balanced around the africa axis. Aus on one side, south america on the other, and then a vast expanse of neutrals, to be totally ignored until you reach a stalemate in north africa.

Edited 2014-05-13 15:23:00
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-13 19:35:15


125ch209 
Level 58
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i'm happy that the challenge is over soon, after 2 weeks without updating my bot, i can't understand what i wrote anymore, it is such a mess. if i take parrt in the next challenge, i'll have to start from scratch.
Jim: do you have an idea of how long the next challenge will take, from opening to finals?
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-13 20:06:14


ps 
Level 61
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i'm happy that the challenge is over soon, after 2 weeks without updating my bot, i can't understand what i wrote anymore, it is such a mess.


it can only get better :) you need to learn how to refactor your code for readability. it only comes with practice. i still largely suck at it for example. also, commenting what does what usually helps. :)
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-13 20:21:39


Trogatog
Level 52
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Once I get my membership, I'm going to be getting a starter bot set up for the Warlight API to distribute so we can start playing games on the fly with each other. I'll see if I can get a game server queued up so your bots can just join at your leisure. It should be a pretty kick-ass project :)

I've got the repository all set up (https://bitbucket.org/trogatog/warlightapistarterbot), but I can't use the API until I get the membership to start parsing out the json objects and sending/receiving test data.
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-13 20:31:33


125ch209 
Level 58
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when it is over, i'll make my project public, you'll see what i mean by "it is a mess" lol.I do have a lot of comments to keep it readable, but i hardcoded so much stuff that it is hard to keep track of everything. I have 3016 lines in the main class file, i wonder how many lines of code do you guys have? I bought a 867 pages book about JAVA progamming but i didn't have the chance nor the courage to take a look at it yet, maybe i'll start to read it for the next challenge. I also saw that there is some JAVA courses on youtube when i was looking into the A* pathfinding you guys talked about, it might be more entertaining than a book.
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-13 20:52:29


Trogatog
Level 52
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http://theaigames.com/competitions/warlight-ai-challenge/games/53727c424b5ab26e84c80128

Dalek's last move was basically Norman's way of saying,

Yeah, I could've... but I didn't.
...but I could've


Made me laugh at least :)
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-13 23:23:34

{rp} pedrito 
Level 48
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A thrilling game of back and forth.... neither bot manages to wrest control of the situation completely at any point, every turn is on the edge of deciding the entire game yet every time the opponent manages to pull things around. Breathtaking, exciting and... ah no, wrong game, sorry.

http://theaigames.com/competitions/warlight-ai-challenge/games/537273bc4b5ab26e84c8008e

By the way thanks for all your compliments Trogatrog, and thanks everyone for being such a great community. Lets keep some of this going after the finals!
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-14 01:55:11


Trogatog
Level 52
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WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-14 07:01:18

jim
Level 2
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125ch209: the Beta of poker will be online this friday, then after the finals of Warlight it will go fully live. Then it'll probably take around 2-3 months before we start the finals of the poker game.
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-14 07:21:15


125ch209 
Level 58
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damn i'll probably have to play this challenge as well, if there is a game i love more than warlight, it is poker...
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-14 07:25:43

jim
Level 2
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We've just had an idea to create 'random' maps. Generating completely random maps bring too many complications with it, but we could create pieces of a large map and also different configurations to connect those pieces. Then before the game starts it randomly picks a number of those pieces and then randomly picks one of the ways to connect them. This way you never know what map you're playing on because it can be any of, let's say, 20-40 configurations.

125ch209: Happy to hear you like it :)

Edited 2014-05-14 07:26:24
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-14 08:17:35

GreenTea 
Level 60
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We've just had an idea to create 'random' maps.

Great idea!
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-14 10:51:09


ps 
Level 61
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Once I get my membership, I'm going to be getting a starter bot set up for the Warlight API to distribute so we can start playing games on the fly with each other. I'll see if I can get a game server queued up so your bots can just join at your leisure. It should be a pretty kick-ass project :)

I've got the repository all set up (https://bitbucket.org/trogatog/warlightapistarterbot), but I can't use the API until I get the membership to start parsing out the json objects and sending/receiving test data.


Maybe i'm not understanding you right, but afaik the warlight api only lets you create games, not submit moves. I think i asked Fizzer for bot support at some point (my idea was to be able to let your bot play for you when you get booted) but it wasn't very high on priority list.
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-14 11:33:30

GreenTea 
Level 60
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Maybe i'm not understanding you right, but afaik the warlight api only lets you create games, not submit moves.

Yes its true. Bot can't play entire game for human.

But I think it we should somehow integrate our bots into warlight. Not now, but maby in future. Because top bots already play much better then default warlight AI.

The bot just need to pass some acceptance tests that prove its stable and adequate play on maps with different settings and on different maps. This is not easy task..
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-14 11:38:04

GreenTea 
Level 60
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The map is imbalanced, north america is weak, africa is strong when you have its choke points, weak when you dont, asia gives very strong expansion options, the south is very safe etc. These imbalances make the game interesting.


So advantage of one regions (good for expand) compensated by advantages of another regions (safety). This is how I understand 'balance'.
WarLight AI Challenge: 2014-05-14 14:21:03

{rp} pedrito 
Level 48
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+1 for randomly generated maps
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