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thanks, I'll do that

Let me summarize the points that been made in this thread, add my own points and my commentary into every single one of them;

Initial Question: How do we make the game more popular?

1) By focusing on the permanant loop of advertisement > more player > more money > more advertisements...

- Yea, that's the obvious answer but the efficiency of this will depend on the game's quality. Warzone is definitely on of the best games I've ever played but it has obvious negatives (explained below) and its not very welcoming for the new players, so a few adjustments needed to be made before starting this loop.



2) By making the game less punishing for the new players

- This is a very generalized point. Hence, I'll break it down to 8 categories, from most significant to least significant (for new players).

2.1) Stop Changing Player's Settings without their knowledge!

- OMG this is the most annoying thing! I can't even remember how many times I had to help new players to fix those automatically changing settings. Countless new players quits the game EVERY DAY because they think their phone app is broken due to one accidental click on idle and now can't go back to Warzone classic. Or so many new players, quitting the game because of getting overwhelmed by new QM games due to that cursed "auto-invite" opens itself without the player's knowledge!

2.2) Better Tutorials (Tutorials for each official template should be available for new players to improve quickly)

- Every official template (i.e. SEAD, SE1W, S1V1, S2V2, MALD, COLD, COMB, GUIR, FREB) should have their own, dedicated tutorials. Players can of course go with any strategy they want but they have to learn the basics so that, instead of getting frustrated from a lose, they'll appreciate opponent's skills (because as people know more about the game, they tend to understand opponent's amazing moves that lead to their defeat, and appreciate them more instead of claiming stuff like bad luck and getting frustrated by it)

2.3) Improve Level-up System (Make level-up more rewarding and don't focus too much on winning games)

- We need new players to learn and experiment the game as quick as possible. So don't limit the settings/maps for new players and let them experiment! Instead of unlocking settings/maps, give them increasing amount of coins for each level-up as reward.

Moreover, level-up system should focus much more on participation than wins. If the focus is on win, since new players tend to lose, they'll always be frustrated. Players should get points by playing daily, they should get exponentially more if they participate in QM. Even more if they participate in both QM & CW... With a point system that focuses on participation, new players will definitely be much more appreciated, and gonna stick around much longer.

2.4) Win Rate & Rating Separation

- In this game, literally every game (except "practice games" which almost nobody uses) is recorded and affects your win rate. Think of a new player who is really good at strategy but not experienced in this game. That player naturally gonna lose lots of games even though he is talented and he'll know that it will take a huge effort to improve his win rate after getting enough experience.

To solve this problem, win rates shouldn't be affected by any games with rating (i.e. Quick Matches, Ladders, CW etc.). Because ratings and win rates are contradicting each other (ratings increase bad player's WR while decreases good player's WR). Both systems (WR & Ratings) are good, they just needed to be separated (Tournaments, Open Games etc. should only effect WR while QM, Ladders etc. should only effect ratings)

2.5) Too Many Features (Warzone has too many features which discourages players to give the time to learn the game)

- Too many features doesn't make this game bad, but I also believe that too many customization can get easily overwhelming for a new player. Hence, new players should be more encouraged to play Quick Matches than Open Games, where game is limited to a few simple, yet fun templates. We can even have diplo templates in QM (because people can only participate in diplos through Open Games which is not a nice place for new players. Plus, diplos are crucial for new players to sit back, relax and enjoy the game rather than going full tryhard & get frustrated)

2.6) Better Official Templates (Maps & settings should be fair, bad example "SEAD", good example "S1V1")

- S2V2 template in idle arena and 4PL-FFA in QM are incredibly frustrating since nobody plays them (for good reasons). Plus, templates like SEAD can be improved to make them more fair. So either remove those templates, and put more interesting ones, or improve those templates.

2.7) Improve Rating System (Warzone's rating system is messed up, players don't match people from their skill level)

- I agree with this point. But still my main issue is; games with ratings like QM effecting win rates. Which means even if rating system is perfect, your WR should be around 50% as you play more in QM. Hence, good players will be discouraged from playing QM for their WR and new players will be discouraged from playing QM because rating system is not good enough.



3) By renaming the game to be more original (i.e. Warlight)

- YES! This is probably not gonna happen anytime soon because of the ongoing legal case and stuff. But WarLight was a very good name, never understood the need to change the name of the game. It's also much more original and gonna help the game a lot if Fizzer decides to go for an aggressive marketing campaign.



4) All clans should have a member capacity (even the oldest ones)

- I have an alternative approach to this. Every clan has their own objective (some to create a united community, some to win CW etc.), so there should be an option to go for a capped or uncapped clan. If a clan is uncapped, they shouldn't be able to participate in CW. This way, community clans will get their unlimited community, try-hards will get their elitist players to dominate competitive scene (and since they'll be capped, there will be various competitive clans which will compete with each other for a fun dynamizm).



5) Community should increase game's visibility via Twitch, Youtube etc.

- Yea, we should, but I personally got gonna bother with it :P This is a free game, we shouldn't expect everything from Fizzer.



6) Fizzer shouldn't work alone, he should hire a developing team to be able to adopt the game to everchanging demands

- I agree but no need to hurry, when he fixes the problems in the 2nd point (making the game more inviting for new players) and starts his aggressive marketing campaign, he'll require a developer team to satisfy player's everchanging needs. However, if he prefers having a small but friendly community, he doesn't need new developers...



7) Improve the "accidental commit" system

- Yea, this would be really appreciated. My idea on this issue is to make a "double checking system" if most of the movable armies didn't moved in that turn OR if the player still has 90% of the boot time remaining. It's very easy to implement and very helpful for players.



8) Single player levels taking too much time and you gotta restart with slightest mistake, make them more rewarding

- I agree, I actually like the way single-player almost goes on forever, which gives me notion of I can always enjoy playing this game, whenever I want, doesn't matter how many years passes. But when you actually play the single-player level, you remember why it feels like infinity in the first place and you don't wanna start a new level after finishing one. Moreover single-player has no purpose except some achievements, there should be nice rewards for finishing every level (especially with gold stars).



9) Warzone Tiktok account with cute Fizzer dances to improve game's visibility

- This feels cringe rather than amazing. Maybe for a one-time thing but then, the timing should be really good...



PS: Wow, this was hella long to write, good luck reading it all :P

Instead of unlocking settings/maps, give them increasing amount of coins for each level-up as reward.

No, because players will farm coins with alts :(

Too many features doesn't make this game bad, but I also believe that too many customization can get easily overwhelming for a new player. Hence, new players should be more encouraged to play Quick Matches than Open Games, where game is limited to a few simple, yet fun templates. We can even have diplo templates in QM (because people can only participate in diplos through Open Games which is not a nice place for new players. Plus, diplos are crucial for new players to sit back, relax and enjoy the game rather than going full tryhard & get frustrated)

Lol, the community already separates idle, diplo and classic, why not just make it official lol and enforce those diplo rules

3) By renaming the game to be more original (i.e. Warlight)

- YES! This is probably not gonna happen anytime soon because of the ongoing legal case and stuff. But WarLight was a very good name, never understood the need to change the name of the game. It's also much more original and gonna help the game a lot if Fizzer decides to go for an aggressive marketing campaign.

Good luck telling Fizzer to rename the game back. :)

If a clan is uncapped, they shouldn't be able to participate in CW. This way, community clans will get their unlimited community,

I dont think that's a good idea, what if its a casual clan that wants to sometimes play CW and sometimes not? And maybe just only rank the capped competitive clans in this case as an alternative to the alternative, and give the casual clans their rewards normally but not counting them into the map

OR if the player still has 90% of the boot time remaining.

Just exclude MD from this please. I don't want an accidental commit button coming up all the time when playing my MD games.


9th point is just pure cringe tho

Edited 2023-03-27 11:00:49

No, because players will farm coins with alts :(

No, they'll not, because;

1) They can already do that with Coin Wheel.

2) As I said, the coin reward will be exponential in my suggestion. Let me give you a clear example;

Let's assume going from level 8 to level 9 takes around 8 days on average and get 8 coins for it as reward. If going from level 68 to 69 takes 68 days on average and players get 136 coins for it, they'll focus their time & energy more on their main accounts rather than alts.

Conclusion: Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I initially expressed it "give them increasing amount of coins for each level-up" actually encourages people to stick to their main accounts rather than playing with alts. Which solves another problem

Edited 2023-03-27 11:09:36

I would create many alt accounts if the reward will be coins for leveling up

@vena Again, you would get less coins for spending your time with alt accounts, rather than sticking to 1 account. You can already play unlimited amount of games with 1 account, so you can do it but I would gain more coins than all of your alts + your main combined if I play the same amount

No, it takes much more time to level up with the higher level account than it takes to level up with the low level account. But I don't think this will be the solution. You cannot do much with coins. Only certain things in Idle and buying membership/clan/premium colors and play coin games

@vena, you're thinking of the current level-up system which means you didn't read my suggestion completely, please read my suggestion before providing commentary, you're not even talking about my point right now

Edited 2023-03-27 11:17:26

Let's assume going from level 8 to level 9 takes around 8 days on average and get 8 coins for it as reward. If going from level 68 to 69 takes 68 days on average and players get 136 coins for it, they'll focus their time & energy more on their main accounts rather than alts.

Well I didn't think of that. Make the rewards increase *more* than the increasing of the XP needed for the next level, so that when level increases, coins/xp increases so that people dont go for short term reward with same amount of reward

No, it takes much more time to level up with the higher level account than it takes to level up with the low level account. But I don't think this will be the solution. You cannot do much with coins. Only certain things in Idle and buying membership/clan/premium colors and play coin games

That's a lot to do with coins. And it would speed up our idle so much lol

Edited 2023-03-27 11:21:41

You can throw out the idea of the name rebranding itself to Warlight again.
For the very simple reason that legal issues pushed Fizzer to rename to Warzone in the first place.

Then giving Coins for leveling up is like the worst proposal.
Here is a step by step guide on how to get Lifetime membership in a day.

Step 1: Create 40 accounts (takes like 5 min as you dont have to verify email)
Step 2: Join X(40 f.e.) amount of games (Each game should be a Coin + MD game as that gives the biggest XP boost that you could easily make) And considering you want to unlock all features for new players, making 40 Player game slots with levels 1 isnt aproblem anymore)
Step 3: Surrender with 39 Accounts (Considering your leveling system is now tied to joining games and not actually winning, everyone gets XP and levels up)
Step 4: Boom you suddenly have 40 Accounts being level (lets say) 12
Considering each account won 1 game and still got participation XP from the other 39 games, that should be fair. There is a punishment in XP gain for beating the same opp but its not like you are limited in your Accounts...

If we say level 1 gives 1 coin
2 gives 2
3 gives 3
...
12 gives 12 coins (idk how big your exponential growth is so lets just keep it linear)

We would have 40x1+40x2+40x3[...]40x12 = 3120 Coins Won (Minus the coins spend for the 40 created games)
That is already enough for 2 Year Memberships and halfway there to a Lifetime Membership
For the low low cost of spending like 1 to 2 hours......
Across 40 Accounts, sure. And you will lose a chunk of it due to Fizzer tax but its gets the points across. This is simply broken.

Like the SpiffingBrit would say
"This is totally perfectly balanced game with no exploits"

And this is just the most outrages example i could come up with in 5 minutes... Even if you were to lets say force verified emails to gain the coins.. all it does is slow down the problem.)
The problem itself you cannot fix unless you decrease the value of a single coin from 1cent to 0.001 cent at which point it obviously wouldnt be a reward anymore...

Edited 2023-03-27 12:34:40

@Roi Joleil, this is the same objection that pi already made.

Firstly, you're still thinking about the current level-up system (even though you adopted some features from my suggestion). Wins actually don't help you gain points (in my system), participation does. So again, having an alt just for you to win quicker will not gonna have effect. Winning gonna increase your WR & Rating, not level (at least in my suggestion.

Secondly, everybody knows that if players starts gaining coins through level-up, all players will have more coins and things will require more coins. This is called inflation and you seem to completely forget about that in your objection. Even though gaining coins will be easier because of this new way of acquiring coins, things you get with coins will get more expensive to balance things.

However yes, I agree that this system needs to be implemented carefully, even with just participation, if you make alts advantageous, players will naturally gonna do that. That's why in my suggestion, people using alts gain coins slower.

And it's the same objection I realised I was wrong about after a correction.

Secondly, everybody knows that if players starts gaining coins through level-up, all players will have more coins and things will require more coins. This is called inflation and you seem to completely forget about that in your objection. Even though gaining coins will be easier because of this new way of acquiring coins, things you get with coins will get more expensive to balance things.

Just facts. And in that case maybe we could convert the "old" coins into more new coins since they took more effort and it's a bit unfair.

Edited 2023-03-27 12:58:06

Thanks so much for this great summary, Vera!

so that when level increases, coins/xp increases so that people dont go for short term reward with same amount of reward

I gotta emphasise this because it means players are more motivated to spend time farming xp on their MAIN account. Which completely eliminates that.
And if we dont make it a crazy amount of coins, and raise money/coins cost and membership and colour stuff, it'll be fine.

There were no legal reasons for the name change, Joi; Fizzer just found WarLight not up-to-date anymore because the game wasn't running on this Light thing anymore

What do you do with the coin reward for the older players that haven't received the coin prizes? For example FC Bayern who is alreeady at level 68 and didn't get any coin reward for leveling up.

"Firstly, you're still thinking about the current level-up system (even though you adopted some features from my suggestion). Wins actually don't help you gain points (in my system), participation does. So again, having an alt just for you to win quicker will not gonna have effect. Winning gonna increase your WR & Rating, not level (at least in my suggestion."

The fact that only participation matters matters makes this whole exploit easier as you can just spam join games and (make a script to join and Surrender games)
This literally makes this whole thing worse than it would otherwise be.

"Secondly, everybody knows that if players starts gaining coins through level-up, all players will have more coins and things will require more coins. This is called inflation and you seem to completely forget about that in your objection. Even though gaining coins will be easier because of this new way of acquiring coins, things you get with coins will get more expensive to balance things."

I did not forget about inflation. I even said "The problem itself you cannot fix unless you decrease the value of a single coin from 1cent to 0.001 cent at which point it obviously wouldnt be a reward anymore..."
Which is literally inflation i just didnt use the word 'inflation' in itself.

Like there are literally only 2 sollutions to this.
Either A you make coins completly worthless which then makes you entire suggestion useless and worthless. Like who the fuck is gonna be like "OMG MOM I GOT 0.001cent IN THIS GAME"

Or B the much more sensible sollution.. we just dont give out coins for free like this...
I dont doubt there are many ways to improve the current level system, but going about it by giving out coins is just No. Nonono

Edited 2023-03-27 13:08:55

"There were no legal reasons for the name change, Joi; Fizzer just found WarLight not up-to-date anymore because the game wasn't running on this Light thing anymore"

Could have sworn there was some reason to which people used to justify the name change.
Not that i could find them anymore

The name WarLight was chosen b/c of the technology it was built on at the time; it was changed to Warzone b/c the owner of Warlight.com refused to sell the domain to Fizz

Going back to WarLight means we would lose the coveted ".com" and have to settle for ".net", etc